How has COVID-19 Impacted Tech Employment?

Webinar Transcript

Introduction, Hosted by Lindsay Lewis


It’s 4 p.m. EST and we were full conversation today. So let’s not waste any time welcome to today’s webinar on the state of tech employment industry insights protect leaders. Thank you for taking the time today to join us. I know our speakers are eager to kick off the conversation. So I’ll keep the introduction short and sweet before hitting the proverbial might connect. My name is Lindsay Lewis, and I’m the brand and content strategy manager at it Staffing and recruiting.


And most of our equipment parent company of Jobspring and Workbridge and the founder of Tech in Motion events. These are difficult times that I know that here at Motion amid. All the challenges. We have been continually inspired by stories of people helping one another from the essential workers and Healthcare professionals supporting our families and keeping us safe.


As a majority of a shelter-in-place to those in the Tech Community pivoting their businesses are products of right data analytics or help to the current crisis immobilize the now remote Workforce or combat during security concerns. We see you. We see all the heroes emerging from unexpected places when it’s in all these efforts around us. We hope to contribute our unique recruiting expertise to ride some Help in Motion content for the tech industry.


I may not be physically fighting on the Frontline booster excited to be a resource for our communities through the in I think data is we have to help answer the vital question be here every day. This webinar is a part of Help in Motion a collection of virtual events articles and guides help detect Community through these uncertain times last week. We kicked off with almost 1000 registration for our how to navigate today’s market as a tech professional and we’re looking forward to part one of our Series today providing answers protect the current leaders more information. You can visit visit you might be aware.


That will Motion Recruitment is a new arrival to the virtual events but as an organization is more than familiar. We founded Tech in Motion, in-person event series with a membership of more than 200,000 second motion has been providing a forum for Tech enthusiasts to hear stories that Inspire to learn from peers and leaders and to connect with others and it Community for close to a decade currently Tech in Motion shifted to Virtual events. And as motion recruitment, we’re going to be asked about going live with our own virtual events in their footsteps.


Three quick housekeeping notes for exact off. You may have seen that you join this webinar and listen only mode, but we welcome you to submit your questions and comments in the chat box on your gotowebinar panel will do our best to document during the Q&A session. Today’s webinar will be available on demand and you will also receive a link via email to view the video Once the live session has ended finally. I love him by you to follow us on social and interact live with the conversation kicks off our there on LinkedIn or on Twitter as motion stopping.


Now that that’s out of the way. I’d like to introduce our host for the webinar. Next Campo. Nick has always been the adventurous type once traveling through seven countries and just 30 days during his college days and the time sense. Nick’s still keeps the spirit of Adventure alive, but he focuses his time of her writing Talent Solutions to Enterprise organizations with 11 years of experience in the Staffing industry. Nick has contributed his expertise to the temp and contact Arena to help many clients hackleburg challenges.


Based out of Boston, Massachusetts and New England on like Tom Brady this football season here is next to lead you through today’s session.

Meet the Experts


Wow, you had to bring up Tom Brady. I guess that’s how we’re kicking things off. But thank you very much, you know excited to be here the picture brings back days pre quarantine when barber shops were open and you get a haircut. So hearken back to the good old days, but no seriously. I’m excited to be here, you know pumped to be hosting today. I think we got a great panel. I think, you know just in terms of what’s going on out there.


It’s just there’s a lot of questions and what’s going on in the market for Hiring perspective so excited to kick things off here today. Let’s let’s meet our panel. I think we got a really solid one for you guys today first. Gentleman is Ryan Britain. He’s currently an executive director in our San Fran office. It’s been with motion for 15 years. So Ryan knows what he’s talking about. He’s seen a few few things along his travels. He’s worked in San Fran DC Boston and Chicago quite the journeyman.


And right now he’s he’s running an open-source development team specializing in that market from New York. We have Devin courts who’s running one of our offices out there. She’s been with motion for eight years and all in New York. I think correct and is running our design and product team and then our third panelist is Maura Pagano. She’s coming to us from TrialSpark, which is a biotech company and prior to well, I guess right now she’s running Talent.


And for them right and prior to that was running and working in Talent acquisition at Google and Redfin. So ton of domain expertise across the Staffing sector and then more a helping us out from from obviously the hiring side.


So just a quick agenda for everybody today. The first thing I wanted to say was we hosted a webinar last week right on Thursday. Some of you who join that might be joining today. We thank you the content from that was focused on the on the candidate side right today. The agenda is mostly around Tech hiring and Leadership. So while the presentation might feel the same the content itself is going to be geared to Tech leadership. So we hope that you’ll hang through.


It’s and take out some tidbits from that side some high-level agenda points here and then we’ll get into some live QA X Mandy.

Overview of Tech Employment in Current Climate


So we’re going to get into the state of the tech industry, right and you know, when we were putting this together, I was thinking about how my day starts right I get up like most of you guys I go downstairs grab my cup of coffee and I watch the news right and there’s a lot of there’s a lot of headlines out there right? Some of them are. Okay and a lot of them are not so good, right, you know, here’s one that hit me how covid-19 is leading the u.s. In an into a new type of recession.


And what does this mean for our future?


I negative 1 right I’m more positive on would be the Telecom and Tekken game in Industries are hiring despite what’s going on? So a little confusing maybe some Industries are doing really well. Maybe some Industries are doing poorly right? And then Microsoft reports a 46 drop in recruitment Google high freezes hiring, right? That’s that’s a negative. That’s a negative, you know highlight there. So there’s just we came here today to really Unearthed what’s going on out there in the market and you know where we wanted to start.


Just with some data we want to talk about what’s actually happening out there. So if you look here there’s a bunch of numbers on the screen, right but there’s one thing that stood out to me and that’s that it unemployment in March is up 26% from February. Okay from That’s from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. That is a massive jump. I’m not going to we’re not going to try and hide from that. That’s it. That’s a huge jump that puts it unemployment at 2.4 percent.


I think if there is a silver lining if you’re in IT hiring or leadership. That number is still 45 percent lower than the national average, right? So it has States somewhat resilient. Although still just a massive increase in unemployment.


And if you yeah and then so on this, you know, there’s there’s a large numbers on this screen again, right? We’re seeing in March 19 thousand jobs were lost again. Just just you know, it’s obviously an unfortunate number in kind of paints Paints the reality of the market, but what we saw from what is going on out there with this pandemic and with covid-19 is it actually did create some opportunity which is which is interesting I think and somewhat, you know reassuring for us that are in the tech sector is 8,500 jobs.


Actually created in March. So 45% of those jobs that were lost in March were reabsorbed back into the economy and in the form of new jobs, so I thought that was obviously an interesting stat as well looking here. So this is this is a trend line of year-over-year growth within the temp Staffing market, right?


And this is put out by Si a I don’t know how many folks subscribe to that but they run a ton of data in this focus is is specifically on the temp Staffing market, right? And we look at that because it’s a good indicator of what’s going on in the economy. Right if people are hiring an influx of contract resources. Typically, there’s perm going hiring going on. There’s agency fees. There’s not agencies hiring is in demand, right? You can see this massive decline here in 2020, and that’s what we’re experiencing right now. In fact, it’s projected that in 2020 the 10th Market will decrease by 9 or 9 to 14 percent. Not a great number.


And we recognize that and we’re going to talk about what’s going in on in the market today. And then we’re going to talk a little bit about what we see for the future. Right but this vertical kind of increase, you know, it’s a it’s a v curve. I think SI a calls it slingshot effect, you know different terms for it, but we’re looking and we’re anticipating a rebound in the it hiring landscape.


In 2021 of 17 percent. So I think what we’re going to talk about today is what we’re seeing but a lot of the trends that we’re going to talk about are things that that hiring leaders can Implement today to be a part of that rebound be a part of that slingshot. So I thought that graph was was pretty interesting as well. So it’s kind of gone on and on here a little bit. Let’s let’s get this panel involved, right? What does for first question here.

What does the tech hiring climate look like across various industries during the COVID-19 crisis?


I want to kick it over to Ryan start. I can State the obvious that every person every company every industry has been impacted and as you to your point, there’s definitely pockets of companies that are hiring. There’s also a handful of companies that are taking advantage of the increased Supply and trying to make strategic tires into their engineering teams.


Last Thursday, I know are the candidates focused webinar that we did covered some of the specific industries that are doing well, like streaming services and delivery and Logistics, but overall, you can kind of look to Consumer demand and even to a certain extent some of the companies that were funded just before the pandemic outbreak for who’s doing well and continuing to hire. They’re still fairly. Well capitalized.


Yeah, totally and I would say that, you know, even for well-funded companies or companies that are feeling quite relevant right now like those in healthcare trial spark in particular works in the space of clinical trials and making those trials more efficient and more cost-effective. Even we are looking at our operating costs or managing to our bottom line or thinking about where we can be more lean.


So even even a company that you know might be able to quote unquote capitalize on the moment that we’re in is going to exist in economy that’s different than it was as the year started. So I think everyone is thinking about their costs and that includes their hiring plan this year.


I think we’ve seen a shift in consumer Behavior, which has shifted how the tech hiring climate is. I mean consumers are becoming a lot more open to sharing their personal data with companies is that’s going to help with that, you know curing this pandemic which means an influx of Industry analysis and data analysis. That’s ultimately helping companies determine which Tech skills and roles to focus on which also in turn changes the way that companies are hiring.


So with that being said companies also have to get creative with will touch on a little bit later. But when this comes to hiring in this uncertain market we’ve seen an influx in contract to fire positions to offset some of the risk on both the candidate in client side of things.


So that’s ultimately impacted how the hiring climate looks like. Yeah, those are all really good points. I know going from which industries that were are hiring right now. I wanted to touch a little bit on which what are the text skill sets and roles that we’re seeing right now.

Which tech skills and roles are in highest demand during COVID-19?


I mean think of everything that has to be digitized right now Insurance platforms Healthcare records formerly Antiquated workflows that now need to be optimized to support a First environment. I was talking to the VP of design and Fortune 100 insurance company and they have used legal pads for you know, 20 30 years and now they needed to digitize that workflow. So he’s leading up this digital transformation team, which early adoption was a little bit spotty, but now they’re kind of forced into that. So they’ve had to scale up their team with product managers designers data engineer.


As data scientists. I was talking to the head of talent acquisition at a large Media company and they had to hire and create eight different data scientists Physicians just due to the influx of data. So everyone is is having increased data needs and increased hiring it’s and you know one piece of advice that I really have is if you’re able to hire in this industry, you’re competing against the streaming media content creation that you would assume are. The highest Tech skills are highest.


You know tech companies in demand right now, but you’re able to compete with them. If you’re not, you know, the Netflix or anything like that because of the value that you have and how your platform impacts the user. So I think identifying which Tech skills and roles are impacted by the amount of data and the digitization of the workflow and everything happening right now.


There’s a yeah, I would probably put a caveat in Camp here in the Bay Area where companies are always hiring for software Engineers, but beyond that there’s certainly been an uptick in demand for devops site reliability and security, you know, the engineers that can help scale and secure the the infrastructure or you know, basically support the unprecedented amount of web traffic that we’ve seen as peoples did home and stream movies or are online.


Yeah, I’ll just underscore both of them and say like we continue to look for a site reliability Engineers as well. And then internally like our data team is more valuable than ever. They’re working. Just right alongside the c-suite as we figure out what our kpis are what really matters as we get focused as a company. So I think maybe folks who don’t have a really strong data or bi team in place today or definitely going to be looking for that.


That yeah, and I’ll just touch on that too. That’s a good point more are the you know, one thing that I’m seeing also as we work with a large grocery real retailer and obviously their their booming right now given the demand for home delivery for groceries, right? So I think in terms of skill set and Industry, you know, there’s a huge demand for talent that can help with revenue-generating platforms, right?


So if you’re a hiring leader you’re competing against You know, maybe the Netflix of the world or any of these these streaming sites. I think it’s important to convey the message to your candidates as well on how your platform your service your product whatever it is. How does that impact the end-user right? That’s ultimately how you’re going to win.


We’re getting talent in the door is explaining to them in a way that you know, your product or service is just as impactful as that maybe the next person. so Moving on to the next question guys.

How is the current climate impacting tech talent pools?

What are we seeing out there Ryan? I think there’s an interesting Dynamic going on right now. Yes, there has been a major influx of resumes and profiles, you know on the mark of the five found themselves on the market.


We also have to understand that a lot of companies especially in what has been a lot of First round of layoffs. The first place that they’re going to look is is tends to be the other performers or people that there was a cultural issue with so while yes, I would argue that there’s a larger pool of candidates. I would say that pool is a little bit diluted and so you kind of need to find a balance especially with your team of how many interviews you’re going to take on in a week to make sure that they can still get you know their jobs.


Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m the on the flip side of that great engineer’s and candidates are getting laid off not due to Performance. But because their company went under so my biggest tip is leverage your network, you know referrals are top channels of quality Talent as they always have been we had an entire Tech team that was referred to us by CTL the fintech startups and they’re all really talented candidates, but the company’s unfortunately going under so you need to leverage your network.


Tell your network your staff and partners your friends your family make it known that you’re expanding your Tech Team leverage your internal teams. Also as they’re going to know who’s going to be the best fit because before this entire pandemic happened, they were the ones working there on a day-to-day basis. They understand the culture. They understand the type of person. They understand the type of talent that you’re looking for. So leverage them. We’ve had a bunch of companies that are actually over incentivizing their teams or highly incentivizing their teams and off.


Offering higher referral bonuses. So we’re or you know, some sort of bonus and so internal teams internal referrals from your internal teams. Would Best Buy we’re obviously an external Talent partner second best but but use your Tech teams, and these are internal teams to help you hire or do you see any more?


Yeah, I would just underline both the points that Ryan and Devon had made like you really just don’t know why someone is on the market right now is it that Organically looking or that they have been laid off. And is that because they were an under-performer or had some cultural issue with their last employers.


So most of those who are watching the webcast today probably have some you know text screen in place that these candidates are going to need to pass and hopefully they do but as you get further along than the interview process you are going to want to evaluate like what their impact was it their last company were they accountable? Were they a team player? anything else that you know beyond their Tech chops that might have caused them to be part of a layoff of under-performers. And if you know, hopefully that’s not the case. Then the signs are there that they are going to be a great addition to your team. I think that maybe proves to you what Devin saying is that there’s a lot of people who are just caught up in a bad situation and then separately I would say like as you’re getting in those Talent pools, you know.


Hiring manager should be thinking about people who can be successful or autonomous in a remote work environment. Like we all hope that you know those of us that go to an office every day get to do that again soon, but we don’t know what the future of remote works work looks like for a lot of us and I think we all need to be growing our teams with people who can handle a virtual environment and be a great team player, even if they’re not with their team.


Yeah, it’s interesting. You know, there’s there’s was talking to a hiring leader from a biotech company Fortune 500 and the other day and has it open roll and got 200 resumes for it. Right? And I just I think that’s obviously indicative of everything that we’re saying here on what’s going on in the market. You know, the really unfortunate reality is that there is a lot of Talent on the market.


You know does do leaders have time to go through those 200 resumes right into your point more. You know, do you have a vetting process to figure out you know, what they were doing, you know where they coating where they a part of this project or with somebody else. So, you know, we are seeing obviously a change and what those Talent pools close look like so interesting stuff.

How is the current COVID-19 crisis affecting salaries and overall compensation?


So going on to our next question is how is the current crisis affecting salaries and compensation? Right? That’s that’s I mean salaries and comp that’s a huge topic these days and really always so curious what you guys were thinking about that. Yeah. I mean offers need to change if you had existing bands for Equity. The dollar amount may not be worth this much or that its projected to be could be worth less.


Your standard Equity package may not be worth as much two candidates anymore who just need that base salary or you know health care packages. So a lot of times people are weighing those heavily when it comes to the total package.


So do the uncertainty the impact of equity and stock and rsus is just not really weight as heavily, but you also need to be flexible based on what you can you can handle in terms of an offer and what the candidate wants because If you don’t have a high enough cash flow or you need to scale back a little bit in terms of the base salary and you’re willing to offer higher Equity. You need to be transparent about that and say this is not because I don’t think that you’re worth this dollar amount. It’s just this is this is the state of the company right now and if the canons requirements are changing perhaps weighing base salaries a little bit higher and you’re unable to offer those higher base salaries.


Be open about it because if you’re open about it, then I think the flexibility and the transparency and the total package will just make sense and will incentivize candidates a little bit more. Yeah, and I think along with that there’s a certain amount that you need to evaluate risk and reward. I’ll say yes, you absolutely can probably on board Engineers right now at a discount, but then you need to ask yourself, you know.


Six months down the line nine months down the line with the market if the market normalizes, you know, are they going to start to look around again? And what’s the cultural impact that the knowledge transfer loss and all those other things with with losing great engineers. And so to Devon’s point, you know being able to explain and be transparent about only why maybe in offers coming in lower but also having something in place or a road map or a game plan to get them fairly compensate, right?


I think most People will be reasonable and it’s kind of realize the state of the market and they’ll appreciate the Candor. You know, that kind of brings up another point, which is managers right now need to be prepared to answer a lot of questions in the interview process, especially as it comes to profitability, you know and stability.


Yeah, and I would say like a related point to all of this is even thinking about retention for your existing like top Tech Talent something that I hear my colleagues in New York startups who are working in Talent. OR HR think about is okay, if we’re not able to offer big salary increases this year or you know increases in compensation related to Promotions. What does that mean for us?


Ability to retain top Tech Talent who might be wooed away by companies who are hiring like the slacks or Netflix’s of the world. So that’s just something that I think that Tech leaders who are on the call today need to weigh and as they’re thinking about how did they retain their team? Does it make sense to hold the purse strings pretty tight or does it make sense to invest in retaining the great employees you have now definitely trade-offs there. Yeah it is. There are trade-offs.


Laughs and it’s got to be you know, if you’re a tech leader, it’s a tough job, right? I don’t necessarily Envy it in this market because you’re tasked with running a budget running running a company maybe, you know running those the salary negotiations you’re trying to be mindful of the company’s bottom line and everything, right?


But at the same time you need to capture that talent and you want to get them in the door what to get them in the door and then you want to retain them over over a period of time when we get out of this right, you know, because I think hiring leaders. They’re smart, right candidates are smart. And when we come out of this if comp normalizes or changes and goes up kind of with with the hiring demand, then we’re going to see people bouncing all over the place to look for you no more normalized salaries not to say that they’re not right now, but I just I think to your point Maura and Ryan and Devon it’s it’s a difficult, you know kind of challenge these days to make sure that you’re getting those that talent in the door.


And a competitive salary and one that’s going to keep them, you know therefore for the long-term, you know, so they don’t jump in get out of that seat in Q3 or Q4.

How has the hiring process changed in the current market?


Hopefully when we’re out of this thing, so, It’s definitely so how has the current market changed the hiring process and I’ll just say it’s changed right? I mean it’s you know, there’s no more on-site interviews. There’s no more we were talking about this.


There’s no more going out to drinks or dinner with your your newly hired candidate, right if this thing has been flipped on its head and yeah, I give kudos to everybody that that you know has been able to change and kind of adapt but what are we seeing? What are you guys seeing? I’m curious. Yeah, I think well the people on this call know that oftentimes if there’s a job posted you needed that person on the team yesterday. So I’m still seen like a willingness from hiring managers to hire someone totally virtually. However, having never met them in person.


Yes, that does mean that you’re not getting to do a celebratory dinner or drinks when Person has an offer in hand or getting to meet them at a coffee shop maybe to woo them into the interview process in the first place. But again, I think that’s because hiring managers still want, you know Engineers or PM’s to join their team. That being said, I think it’s a bit of a harder sell for candidates, especially those who are passive and maybe you know aren’t in a situation where they’re laid off but are looking at what a new opportunity might mean for them.


And if they don’t have the chance to meet these people that they’re going to be working with it day in and day out in person before signing an offer letter, you know, I’ve seen a little bit more reticent there.


So I think like what the folks on this call can can do is make sure that you’re going the extra mile with engagement, you know, maybe it’s doing like a prep call with a candidate before an interviewer before an interview yourself instead of the recruiter or doing like a debrief on how the interview went over Zoom with their or gotowebinar with the with the candidate after they have Completed their quote unquote on-site just as much touch points as you can have as a hiring manager with the candidate in this process is going to go a long way because you’re just not going to get that in-person time with them anytime soon. That’s what seeing some of the same things here in the Bay area where you know, seems like managers are more gung-ho about being able to on board and there is a little bit of candidate reticence. The one thing I am thing with hi.


Young managers that having the leverage references a lot more for context on what it’s like to work with these people and what they’re what they’re good at as the only way they will have the opportunity to meet them in most cases, but I think it also comes down to with the fact that all interviews are virtual now.


It’s like how streamlined is your process, you know, we always recommend that it shouldn’t really be more than three steps or the most but it shouldn’t take longer than Two weeks from first touch to having the interviews completed but two more of the point that I think it’s going to be about the relationship building and in the crafts of the process meaning if you have somebody that you’re really excited about you could be texting them on a daily or near-daily Basics. You can invite them to stand up. So you should invite them to any virtual happy hours that you have and make them feel involved because you know, you got to put yourself in their shoes.


Has a little bit a lot of the reticence that their experience it is Justified. I mean, they don’t want to be looking for a job again in six months and they don’t want to you know, if we start doing working in the off and our office is again, they want to make sure that they get along with and enjoy the people that they work alongside. Yeah, and then one thing that I’ll just say, you know, we in terms of trying to you know hire for culture that’s a very difficult thing to do because you’re not in this space and seeing what’s going on.


I know we Ryan you guys see a lot of folks that are On references and other types of quality checks to see how they’re going to fit into that into that group, right? So to lean on their network of people and I think you brought up a really good point was just streamlining that problem by having a defined process and I don’t know if streamlined is the right word, but I just think defining it for the candidate right is is a good thing but also defining it for your internal stakeholders, right so that they know you’re doing Zoom call one you’re doing zumba.


I’m called to you’re doing Zoom call 3 right and then hey, we’re all getting together on the back end to make a decision here. Yay, or nay, right? So I think when it’s choppy and it’s undefined that can lead to loss of talent. It can also lead to a may be a poor candidate real experience. But when and what we’re seeing is when it is well defined on the on the on the process side and the internal process side. Those are the hiring leaders that are winning. Right? Those are the those are the companies that are getting the talent and the door and the door quickly that is available.


So Um Devon, I don’t know if I stole any Thunder there, but did you have anything to add did that was what I was gonna say, but we’re it’s no it’s I mean, it’s having an open line of communication internally externally. I think just to wrap all three points out together. Everyone needs to be aware of what you’re looking for. If you know as a hiring manager, you need to be overly communicating exactly the type of candidate that you need so, you know that the next interviewer is looking for that same.


Exact thing the third interview with is looking for that same exact thing. Whereas if we were in the office, you could just pull people into the conference room introduce them quickly send them on their merry way, you know to get the feel of the culture we can’t do that anymore. These everyone internally needs to be prepared to fully interview and and be overly transparent about what you’re looking for. If you’re overly communicating. I’m looking for X Y and Z then there’s no lost. Nothing Lost in Translation from interviewer.


I’m to interviewer to is there an open feedback loop? Do you are people ready to discuss what they like but they didn’t like and and how everything is however ones handling this transition. So yeah, the other thing that I’ve seen and if somebody wants to jump into that’s great, but the other thing that I’ve seen in terms of the hiring process is you know, where a lot of organizations were on site only right?


Well, once you get hired your on-site only right and I think what this is done with this process is done is it’s opened up the Doors for organizations and more maybe you can speak on this too. But for them to think okay, if I can on board somebody remotely if I can have them start working remotely. Maybe I can have them work after this whole pandemic thing is over remotely as well. Right and I think that opens up the talent pool a little bit especially for some Niche rules yet. Are you seeing anyone? Yeah, I think that’s totally true and it’s you know for folks on my team who are often hiring for yes a very Niche profile.


We feel like we find that perfect person who happens to be based, you know on in the southwest or somewhere, you know, that’s not like within commuting distance of New York City and I think we’re all kind of like, you know selfishly excited that this might mean that you know, now those people are on the table and we can you know confidently present them to our hiring managers and say hey like it might make sense for us to bring this person on board, even if they’re not local which if there is any Silver Lining might be in this situation.


Yeah, for sure. I totally agree. Yeah, the hiring process is just is just totally changed and I think we’re all adapting to it for sure. But I think to your point more are there’s then there’s definitely a silver lining there for all of us. So good stuff guys. So I you know, we’re moving pretty quick here, but maybe we spend some time on this one. Right?

What final advice do you have for tech leaders hiring in 2020 and beyond?


What final advice do you have for Tech leaders, you know going into the rest of this year and then you know as Go into 2021 or you want to kick us off? Yeah, I would say something that we’re doing at trial spark that I think external recruiting Partners can do hiring managers can do internal recruiters can do is invest in like strategic projects that you might not have had time for. I know that I personally feel like I’ve been on the phone for the last 2 years. Like I just only ever interviewing only ever, you know, getting candidates into process.


s and out of process and sourcing and just trying to find the right people and now finally have what maybe I wouldn’t describe as old but just less rex that my team is working on in general which has really allowed us to think about things like our interview rubric like how I got Canada experience how we prep candidates what the process looks like holistically even things like onboarding are all kind of on The table for re-evaluation right now. And if you find that you’re not just like back-to-back interviewing candidates anymore and have a little time left to focus on those things like that is certainly at least a first piece of advice that I’d offer. Yeah for sure.


Some of that process that is great advice than any company in any manager, you know regardless of the discipline can feed right. Now as we have some more time and more freedom on our hands. My advice would be pretty simple. It’s be informed especially on you know, what’s going on in your company demand some level of transparency or information-sharing up to change so that you can communicate that to people that you’re interviewing.


Available, right? You know these interview processes are taking a it’s not just nine-to-five anymore. It’s not just Monday through Friday. We’re we’re having we’re seeing managers having to be much more available. And then the last one just be pretty pretty straightforward as a good rule of thumb is practice empathy right realize that even during the interview process. The person you’re talking to may have two kids screaming in the Next Room.


They may be distracted during that coding question because you know, For whatever reason so practice time empathy and be informed. Yeah, I agree. It’s very true Devin you got any any words of wisdom for us? Yeah. I think what I said before Echoes true now more than ever is just know you all found out about this webinar through your network. You didn’t just stumble into this Zoom call or this gotowebinar call. You didn’t just get here.


You’ve heard about it whether it Through marketing campaign or a friend of a friend or your you know currently hiring yourself and just wanted to see what was going on. I mean, I you know Nick similar to what you do every morning. I come downstairs. I read the news and then I go on LinkedIn and the first thing is just always everyone trying to help help out somebody else. Maybe they’re, you know don’t have any open positions right now, but they know of somebody through a friend or through a referral that is looking or that’s high.


Hiring or that’s on the market or is really struggling people are connected now more than ever, especially in the business world in the tech world. My LinkedIn is just insane. So now is the time to utilize that Network whether you’re hiring now or you’re hiring two months from now or hiring six years from now. You have no idea if you solidify it like what more was talking about if you solidify your process right now and can perfect it.


Then you are going to be miles above the competition and using these references using network using your personal connections. Now is the time to humanize the process as much as possible and just start reaching out to as many people as you can whether you’ve got the time where you know of somebody who does this is just this is the time where you can separate yourself from the rest of the competition.


Yeah good stuff. And you know, I agree with everybody I agree with all three of you. You know, the only thing I would add is if you’re fortunate enough, you know, you’re in a position where you have the opportunity to snag Talent. This is a good time to do that.


You know, I think that there there’s also Talent that’s looking to move maybe Industries right there in an industry that is maybe not as resilient to something like this those folks where they Once passive might be more looking for new opportunities into an industry that they had not thought of before, you know, they went from one and now they want to get into streaming or whatever it is. So I just I think you know, that’s it’s a good opportunity to go out and find that passive talent to but yeah, I mean, I agree with everybody here. It’s all about networking and keeping relationships solid. I think I was telling you guys when we’re doing a run-through. I got a call from from a client this week.


Weak and they just wanted to check in on what was going on in the market, right which happens from time to time. But you know, just the hey Nick, what are you hearing what’s going on out there? Because I think we’re all trying to figure this out together. Right? So I just think more of those conversations more of those dialogues. I know, you know, I’m trying to keep in touch not just with hiring leaders in my network, but also with my colleagues whether it’s at motion or other staffing firms to see what they were talking hearing. So just staying informed keeping those, right?


It’s really tight. I think this is a great time great time and all that. You know somebody who was working in Tech Staffing during the last recession.


It was interesting to see, you know, the the different hiring managers that were who maybe we’re not hiring at the time the systems that they came up with to track some of the good Engineers or people that they had been referred to even if they weren’t Able to hire them and we will come out of this obviously and I also think the market was kind of due for a correction especially here in the Bay Area. It was a very candidate driven Market who had stolen certain expectation or even attitudes towards the interview process because there were so highly sought sought after so it’s probably a lot of managers listening this calls like this is the much overdue correction to get this those egos in check through a lot of these Engineers which in a certain case is true.


But how much are you, you know able to stay in touch even if you’re not hiring and how are you tracking some of those relationships more than just a LinkedIn connection to make sure that you’re you’re able to come out of this and your future self is going to be very thankful for what you do right now in the next three to six months for sure for sure.


That’s great. You know a lot of good stuff there guys. I wanted to wear a little head schedule and I think we have some time for some live QA which we’re excited to be a part of so you guys can submit your questions and then we’ll take a stab at them. So I think I have a few here. Let me see. So I got one from Hugh Hewitt asked with a larger pool of candidates due to the impact of covid.


What are the best ways to hire in a timely manner guys touched on that a little bit I’ll touch on that and you can be just be very clear about what you’re fighting for and what you’re able to offer up front.


I think in a more competitive market that we just came out of sometimes companies would maybe withhold some information about the function of the role or the type of compensation that could offer hoping to learn some people in to talk and maybe you know, they really like what they hear and we can we can find Way to make things work and get creative and get them in the door, but I would say be very upfront with your captain a certain salary band or certain total compensation range that you’re up front with that. And so that there’s expectations are set from Anna from a very early stage because I can tell you your team is going to be pretty frustrated if they spend a lot of time and energy interviewing candidates only to get to the offers page and find out that we’re not even in the same ballpark, right?


And so all that time is wasted so I would say say be at front and in almost of intentional with some of the information that you’re sharing.


Yeah, I would also say that you can kind of use the remote interview model that we’re all entering into now to your advantage. I think a lot of people here know that it can be a logistical challenge to schedule a full day of on-site interviews figuring out, you know, as the candidate going to have a doctor’s appointment at their current role with everyone being at home and it being a little easier to schedule an interview over video or maybe the person like we were discussing earlier.


Is no longer with their last employer. I think I can actually move through the process from a scheduling perspective faster than you ever could so if you’re recruiting team is not taking advantage of that, you know, make sure that they are I guess during this time great point and to touch on that as well kind of looping both of those in together.


If you are going to have a really fast process in a really fast turnaround making sure to communicate that with the candidate as well because especially if they’re a little bit more Passively looking maybe they weren’t aware that the process was going to be very quickly and sometimes you know candidates are our clients can hire after one long extended interview and the candidate who may be a little bit more passive gets a little freaked out or scared out about that stuff.


So we just need to be overly transparent and make sure that there’s were communicating feedback loop checking in with candidates clients or internal teams as well and making everyone aware how many steps there’s going to be at the candidate wants, you know to talk to somebody else making sure that that person’s available and I know Kate interview. Yeah be diligent about the information gathering. You know, how many other interviews do they have? What is their timeline like to make a decision?


Now, these are questions that can and should be asked early on so that you know that if the person’s not reckon to be ready to make a decision for another month until they get their bonus or till they finish their project whatever the case may be that You can set up that interview process accordingly. So you don’t lose a lot of momentum if you get them through that process in a week, and then there’s sitting out there for three weeks, you know pursuing other opportunities, you’re Fielding other interviews, you know, you’re going to have recency bias kind of playing against you in those scenarios. It’s great. Yeah for sure. I’m gonna move on to another question here. We got one from Cory.


Does the government have an advantage in seeking top talent Now do To the perception of stability versus a for-profit company and then they have quotes volatility volatility. Somebody can work DPI can touch on that. I’m sorry that we’re gonna go. Well we can both take a stab at it. I was I mean, I just real quick was going to say I mean maybe but I just think the overarching theme in terms of stability in and I know Phil touched on this last week a little bit is is what does that person working on?


If they’re working on something that’s Cutting Edge or is the end user is you know, it’s maybe it’s a revenue-generating platform or the industry outside of government is one that is kind of essential right now. I think that plays a big part in it. Not just the the industry itself. But what is the product who’s using it? Do they need to use it now? Will they need to use it in the future? Is it Cutting Edge, you know or is it Legacy? Right? So I think that actually plays a lot into the stability Factor as well.


That’s a hundred percent true.


There’s a lot of technical debt within a lot of the government organizations and I don’t want to get too political on this but I don’t think I would use stable as the best description of our current, you know government but the one thing that I will say is even hiring directly for the government is nearly impossible more often than not a lot of those roles are some vended out to the Lockheed Martin’s the raytheon’s the General Dynamics and even they’ll go On some of those out to different businesses, right? So very rarely is like the Department of Treasury of the state department going to be posting to software engineering job on their careers page and then you can just apply to that and get hired. So I just think mr.


There’s a lot of money I would I would say probably being invested especially on anything that has to do with Healthcare or getting everything under control, but I don’t I wouldn’t Say that they have a significant Advantage just because of some of the other, you know, it’s cute that you’re dealing with going into into that type of large Enterprise environment with a lot of technical debt settlement a lot of technical debt. Yeah, or yeah, I would just like, you know, if you think back to maybe the last 10 years like probably the first time any of us heard the word furlough was in relation to the US government and not the private sector.


So I Say that that’s you know, my answer that question would be not necessarily and also like our governments especially here in New York state are in a situation where the drop in tax revenue is insane like, you know, think about the sales tax revenue that went in and out of New York City that no longer exists and I know here they’re talking about state employees who aren’t essential potentially being furloughed now that’s on the state level which might be different than Federal which I feel like is this person’s question, but I think like it’s just as volatile.


And either sector like government or private but as an employer if you happen to be a hiring manager who’s working in the public sector or the private sector it all does come down to what you guys are saying. Like, what’s the problem you’re solving like is this person going to join a team within the public sector that’s like helping the problem we have today or is going to improve Society long-term.


I think, you know, you can have an edge as a public sector employer if you’re able to articulate Bad over the private sector employers.


That’s a good point. So we have another question here that I thought was that was good. John said I’m worried about my own company stability right now as a senior Tech leader is it is right. Now a good time to be looking around. I think that’s a really good question, especially at that kind of that leadership level that anybody have a particular opinion on that.


Well, you know I listen I think the fact of the matter is that in any Market really there’s there’s there’s less leadership levels than there are like leadership opportunities. That may be there are you know Engineers, you know, you need one manager to manage multiple people, right?


So the whether it’s a great hiring environment or not, there’s typically less of those leadership roles around so but I what I would say is if there’s He’s out there at an industry. That’s more resilient. Why not? Look, you know, if that doesn’t hurt, you know your current job. You have your current job, right? It sounds like so there’s no reason why you can’t, you know put feelers out there to see what other opportunities there are maybe in an industry that you feel that you’ve learned is more resilient in this in this current economic climate and it just might take you a little bit longer.


Yes, and I mean if that’s what you’re feeling your instincts are probably right, you know, and so why wait and be in a more difficult position, you know operating and interviewing from a position of strength when you’re employed and when you can speak to some of the projects that you’re leading or the team size that you’re managing your just going to interview better than if you are unemployed and kind of scrambling to just to find any job to put food on the table, right?


So I think even if It’s a passive search even if that means you can gauge with the recruiter and say hey, I’m not going to be interested in seeing every job that comes across your plate. But if it does mean X y&z criteria, I certainly want to get pinged about it.


You can set up that Dynamic, you know, depending on the market you’re in but as you mentioned Nick, you know, the higher you go up the chain, they’ll just a less available roles there are and I would just follow the advice to be kind of talked about earlier, which is follow some of the Consumer demand there’s resources where you can even look up, you know recent funding for the area that you’re in and try to follow the companies that may be capitalized well enough to make their way out of this. Yeah, and I think we had actually touched on this a little bit during our candidates focused webinar. Not your biggest attribute is your skill set.


And if your skill set is relevant and you’re learning right now put yourself in a position to grow and continue to To learn and move your career forward and if you feel like things are a little bit unstable. It’s now use your network talk to people who are hiring. You know, let’s just put it out there put some feelers out there. It doesn’t necessarily mean you have to jump ship or leave right now. It’s just good to at least understand have your ear to the ground and hear what’s going on.


Good point Adam asks, what are the benefits of hiring a contractor during these times rather than a full-time employee, you know, I am working with a few clients right now and they are actively hiring contractors and there’s a couple reasons one. It’s because whatever their product or whoever their end user is there’s a demand in that right? So I think there is a benefit to bring it on a contractor right now to help with spikes in demand right depending on what you’re into.


Tree is you bring somebody in to help with that over the next 6 to 12 months? And then maybe that that project winds down and that contractor finds another opportunity. Right? We see that all the time. The other thing we’re seeing a lot right now is contract to hire working with a large Healthcare organization that’s looking for multiple devops engineers and they bring everybody in contract to hire right?


They find it beneficial both for themselves as the employer to try that candidate out and the in the can Find it just as equally as beneficial they get to try that employer out for a period of time to make sure that it’s a good fit. So it seems to be a win-win right now and we see, you know with some uncertainty a lot of employers looking to bring contractors on in and there’s a lot of candidates that enjoy that type of work, right? They like a 3 to 6 months to 12 months assignment and going on to the next project.


I mean, I think simply it offers you flexibility right in And I think the cultural impact is less. If you have a contractor leave or finish up a project versus hiring somebody full-time who decides to leave but to your point. There are a lot of people out there know if you’re a software engineer or if you’re a devops engineer and you look to sort of build a reliable infrastructure. Once you’ve done many of those people don’t want to spin around and babysit what they built they want to go on to the next project and something that they didn’t cool.


So It’s also good opening up. You don’t need to do either or but being open to either may open up your candidate pool for the type of type of person. You look into it in somebody to fit certain within your budget.


Yeah, that’s what I was going to say as well as is it mitigates some of the risk on both sides because you don’t have to onboard a full-time employee right off the bat offer them, you know benefits and all of that you can get it through a third party or they’re in independent contractor and you’re also probably going to open up the candidate pool as well because candidates now are seeing that they don’t know what their commute is going to be like they don’t know what the office culture is going to be. Like there are a lot more accepting of contract positions versus full time because there is a level of uncertainty. So if you open it up to either or depending on the candidate not necessarily the position, I think that you’ll open up the pool of people that you’re going to get. Yeah for sure.


I don’t know about you guys. I’m digging the Q and A lot of good questions here. So we’re let’s choose one more before we wrap up Robin asked. Do you think it would be good or Worth to hire more Junior candidates considering the state of things? I don’t know what your take is on the Junior market, but anyone want to kick us off uneven depends on how your team is tiered right now, if you were top-heavy and you’ve got a seat a lot of senior or lead level Engineers, you probably should have a more even dispersed.


Mint of some Junior and mid-level candidates you already havee with those types of people. I would go out and try to snag and somebody who’s more Senior Elite level which is more difficult to hire in a good market. So I would say it’s kind of depends on of situational. The other thing that you have to realize is that training of Junior candidate may be more difficult right now. I mean pair programming certainly will be, you know, more difficult getting meetings getting training of time.


Even if that’s through, you know going out to events or user group for conferences like those types of things just aren’t possible right now. So you have to look at the resources. You have to get people training and trained it up and running to your satisfaction, but I would say the pens on kind of how your team structures already set up. Yeah, I would I would say like if you have a really robust like onboarding program and think that you can help a bunch.


Each of Junior employees get adjusted then great go for it. If you think it would be more difficult for someone who you know hasn’t rolled with a lot of punches in their careers or started a lot of jobs before, you know, maybe this is their first time they’re ever working at a company full time. If they are like the stay fresh out of school. You want to be really careful about what their onboarding experience looks like and then to Ryan’s Point how you’re training them and getting them ramped up.


Yeah, and so they’ll back in even though I already made a point but I haven’t seen this yet, but I would expect what we start to see is more internship programs, especially for recent College grads with people that are at 1/2 years of experience. I’d be willing to bet a lot of those people would be, you know willing to trade their time and energy for real-world work experience working on a product for free or cheap. Right?


So, you know kind of taking advantage of that and it’s also helping the a kind of Market in general that is you’re going to have more Engineers on the Market have real world experience building applications or platforms that will go live in production versus just going through a boot camp or something like that. And so exploring that you may not have to hire you may be able to bring people in, you know, as an intern in we’re the only thing you have two offers Real World experience. It’s a great Point. Great Point everybody good stuff.


For sharing your opinions. We’re right up right up against the five o’clock hour here. So first of all, I want I want to thank everybody that that was a part of this today, you know our panel Maura for joining us and taking time out of your busy day, and I want to kick it over to Lindsey. I think you’re going to help us wrap up as well actually.



Yes, I am just to kind of read it when Nick died. Thank you so much for joining us. We got a lot of great questions try to choose a diverse tennis selection from that. But if you have any follow-up questions, we do have a post event survey. Please definitely include them. We’d love to still answer them. And obviously anyone that’s on the panel is happy to continue the conversation as well as you can reach out to them on LinkedIn or through our website.


Also keep an eye out for some help in motion resources coming out with more industry and say I’ve been data will be sharing that over the coming week. You’re interested check out our text our guy which is actually in the handout section of GoToMeeting. It has some additional Tech job data. Also, please continue the conversation with us on Thursday if today’s session was interesting for you or you have further questions. There’s the two part Series where this is the first part and the second part is going to be on Thursday April.


Xxx with a focus on how to weave your Tech Team to success in a virtual world. So during part to mobilizing remote Workforce as a tech leader. You can actually probably get some of the answers that we saw a rise in the questions that were submitted by the audience. You can hear from second motions hand-selected panel of experts from across Industries and Technologies as they share best practices for fostering engagement and productivity in a remote environment as well as the tools and technologies that are helping them along the way.


Anyway, hope to see you there make sure to Us on social and check out the help and post help in motion homepage for all of our resources will be following up with a link to the video from the session as well. And thanks again for joining us. Let us know if you have any suggestions for future but topic. Thank you.


Thanks everybody.